February 24, 2018 at 11:12 am #3282
Facundo took 9 shots and Davenport did nothing offensively…shouldn’t have ever gone to OT. These refs need to call stalling when it’s stalling.
February 24, 2018 at 11:58 am #3283
I completely agree. Facundo looked at the refs a couple of times in frustration because Davenport wasn’t doing anything. I’m glad the offensive wrestler came up on top though!
February 24, 2018 at 8:02 pm #3284
Pathetic team states . Scores not even close. Some good individual matches as always . Maybe the recent action by the mhsaa with the basketball player transferring to Clarkston not being able to play his senior year is the beginning of the end of this super team bs .
February 24, 2018 at 8:22 pm #3285
I agree with Tom there’s no reason why a state final score should be like that mhsaa needs to change the transfer rule none of those kids or even the good kids from cc live within 30 minutes of the school it’s not fair to the rest of the state especially when a kid from clarkston that transferred there to play ball had to sit out a full season Edmonds transfered from one catholic school to another why is he eligible
February 24, 2018 at 9:24 pm #3287
I have been to a lot of finals over the years. Their has been so many great finals and then their was this year. Didn’t stay. Problem is I don’t see it getting better anytime soon.
Edmonds and anybody that transfers without moving should be ineligible for the year. I believe it will get changed, but the real problem that the mhsaa is looking at, is due to football, since players transfer every season.
February 24, 2018 at 9:31 pm #3288
Someone on that cc coaching staff has to be on the mhsaa board it’s just not fair to the other teams in the state something needs to be done about this amine should be at Brighton Kamali should be at a school in Lansing Rhett newton came up in the top Dog club which is Brighton/hartland based imagine how much more interesting things would be if cc wasn’t recruiting
February 24, 2018 at 11:02 pm #3289
Wow, this is the most pathetic thing I’ve read in a while. Grown men complaining, “it is not fair to other teams.” Boo hoo, what’s really pathetic is the effort and sportsmanship that Brighton wrestlers showed towards the young men of cc. Also there is a thing called school of choice. And to clear up the misunderstandings, CC is about 15 minutes away for 95% of our wrestlers. Ben Kamali does not live in Lansing and Rhett Newton lives in Novi. Please don’t talk bad on such a great team before doing your research. You hate us because you ain’t us.
February 25, 2018 at 12:25 pm #3294
What is exactly the poor sportsmanship you are talking about that was shown towards the CC wrestlers from the Brighton wrestlers?
February 25, 2018 at 2:59 pm #3302
I wasn’t trying to bash the CC program with my post…from what I’ve seen, officials appear to be afraid to make the proper call against some programs.
I do believe CC is doing many positive things for the sport of wrestling in our state. I think they have a great coaching staff, tough kids, and resources that many would love to have. That being said, with the current climate, I’m not sure they should be participating in the MHSAA and maybe should be competing with the prep schools instead. I usually pay most attention to D1 but barely watched it this year.
February 25, 2018 at 6:21 am #3290
Wow , ccrecruiter do the power’s that be actually know you’re recruiting for them? You don’t strike me as the private school type , after that idiotic rant. If a kid transferres high schools after ninth grade he sits out one year,not a big deal.
February 25, 2018 at 9:28 am #3291
For private school, the mhsaa can’t do anything if they show up freshman year or where they actually live. They state will stop high school students from transferring for sports (other than moving).
The tale to learn for any kid that wants to go to DCC is the 103 pounder being left out at individual districts. He could have been an easy top 5 kid. He beat the 3rd or 4th ranked kid from Brighton. Oh yeah and he’s a senior who has been waiting 4 years for this opportunity to be a state champ and didn’t get it.
February 25, 2018 at 11:41 am #3292
Just imagine if all of these kids from Dcc went to there local schools how much more competitive wrestling in Michigan would be the mhsaa needs to put a end to this it’s getting out of hand when a all star team wins a state final 54to-1
February 25, 2018 at 12:16 pm #3293
They just train harder than anyone else in the state, that’s all there is to it. Not sure what there is to complain about. Most wrestlers here took fair advantage of school of choice rule and have been attending since freshmen year. They have the same opportunity as any other wrestler does when it comes to picking schools. Everyone else just happened to choose wrong. Besides, they are nationally ranked so they should be utterly destroying teams who happen to fall a little below their standards regarding competition level.
February 25, 2018 at 2:01 pm #3299
I am sure you are a minority in the cc family. Most would not come on here and criticize others and make uneducated comments that cc trains harder and are more disciplined.
February 25, 2018 at 12:59 pm #3295
Maybe if they worked harder Davenport would actually take shots and not stall the whole match
February 25, 2018 at 1:23 pm #3296
Davenport is ten times the wrestler you ever imagined to be.
February 25, 2018 at 1:28 pm #3297
There you have it folks,cc recruiter has taken the time to visit every hs wrestling program in the state to see how hard they train! So all the years dcc didn’t win states the kids were slacking off on their training? Cc recruiter 18 = clown.
February 25, 2018 at 1:36 pm #3298
Don’t have to travel to every wrestling room in the state to determine that. It shows in their wrestling that they work way harder than any other team in the state. They treat the sport seriously and show great discipline that other wrestlers and schools lack.
February 25, 2018 at 2:05 pm #3300
So what happened in 2015 ,2016 when the hardest training team in the state wasn’t in the finals? Let me guess you weren’t there. I bet your kid was at st johns as they were becoming irrelevant. I’m betting your the parent none of the other dcc parents want to sit by. When dcc becomes irrelevant try Dundee or Hudson. The mhsaa May be finally growing a pair, uh oh .
February 25, 2018 at 2:09 pm #3301
We’ll see who works harder at individuals this weekend there’s a reason why Davenport ran away from Freeman cc recruiter must be an older brother of one of the cc kids
February 25, 2018 at 5:11 pm #3303
Does anybody know how the attendance was for the finals??
February 25, 2018 at 7:39 pm #3304
I’d like to see the top teams by seed regardless of division run a separate state tournament. Call it D1 or whatever and then use the traditional method to run 3 other divisions. It would be much more fun for all parties. Maybe the top 16 or something. It would take some thought logistically.
February 25, 2018 at 8:01 pm #3305
Never going to happen. That’s why they wrestling each other during the regular season. They have divisions for a reason.
February 25, 2018 at 8:18 pm #3306
When st John’s went on it’s run this w as a huge topic on mlive on one side was the argument if you build it they will come , ox daddy ,Holt fan, nh97 .On the other side there were posters on m live like brando ripping on teams. I believe st johns ,has been and swan valley, never was. I implore all hs sport fans to call , e-mail mhsaa and let them know we support the decision on the Clarkston situation and hopefully it’s only the beginning.enough is enough.
February 26, 2018 at 2:57 pm #3322
Still on the “If you build it….” bandwagon, and have no problem with whoever toes the line. None of my business how parents raise their kids and what they feel is best for their kids. I have NO WAY of knowing the “why’s and why nots” of kids attending certain schools.
SOC has changed the way Districts do business, period.
You take your 14 and put them against somebody else’s 14 and blow the whistle.
End of story, for me anyway.
February 25, 2018 at 8:26 pm #3307
By the way ccrecruiter I’m still waiting for your explanation on the 2015 ,2016 seasons. Screwed by the refs?
February 25, 2018 at 8:46 pm #3308
One more thing , not that I’m a fan but the 2002 to 2006 Davidson teams would have spanked your beloved dcc team. Did they get soc kids yes,but your team takes it to a different level,sad .
February 25, 2018 at 8:54 pm #3309
before I even start, I in no way mean any disrespect to the kids or programs involved.
Since you are talking about St. Johns back in the day and now DCC. A large majority of the kids in St Johns were from St Johns during their hay day. Not all but most were there in middle school. Once that group graduated the playing field somewhat leveled. The same will happen with DCC in 2 years. Not saying they will not win it but you will see teams competing with them.
Great teams start with a core of a few kids. St Johns had Massa, Whitford, Hall and DCC has Amine, Davenport and Kamali. Once that core group changes you will see a change. I am not sure changing any of the Mhsaa rules will stop this from happening somewhere else later on down the road. The only kid that it would have affected on this dcc team would be Edmonds and they were just as dominant without him.
Just look at next years dcc team. They will have to fill from 103-130 plus probably 171 & 189. Will they get a couple freshmen to fill the lower weights, yes but to fill every spot will be a long shot. You look down the road 2 years when amine, davenport, turner and company are gone and now they start looking human again. All sports teams run in cycles and we just have to wait it out.
February 26, 2018 at 12:08 am #3313
Well thought out. Top kids create a different culture, an environment where wrestling is the priority. Brent Metcalf was a catalyst for Davison. And these things do run in cycles. These kids likely wouldn’t be as successful if they weren’t pushing each other and have the coaches they do. There will always be cycles. Not every kid on the CC team was a dominant youth wrestler. Same for Dundee, Lowell, Richmond etc.
February 26, 2018 at 10:06 am #3315
BK and JE both proved themselves at other schools before they transferred to CC, so they did not come up through the ranks.
No disrespect to many teams out there, but these are the teams that come to mind as being the best that I can remember: 2004 Davison team was the best team that I have ever seen, 2018 CC team is second, and then I’d give a tie to the 1992 Bedford and 2012 St. John’s team.
February 25, 2018 at 10:29 pm #3310
The same goes for DCC. Most wrestlers aren’t anymore than 15 minutes away. And also, you can’t compare old Davison teams. This is a whole new era of wrestling. Besides, there’s no way in the world a CC team like today would lose to any of the old Davison teams.
February 26, 2018 at 12:51 pm #3316
Aren’t anymore than 15 minute drive, well lets take a look at where everybody is from for all the teams that made team states (trackwrestling profile) Should be interesting.
140 West Bloomfield
125 Whitmore Lake
152 Gregory (Chelsea)
160 Imlay City
Westland John Glenn
103 Garden City
Certainly not a scientific study, but I think you have the idea.
Well, DCC net of kids probably covers a couple of million of residents over southeast Michigan. Brighton spans a decent amount territory. While big props to Dakota and Oxford for having all there kids from the town they go to school!
February 26, 2018 at 1:34 pm #3317
I appreciate the list, karp. Just to clarify though, with the exception of CC, some of those other school districts have multiple cities covered within their district. For example, students from Inkster attend Wayne-Westland schools and some students from Wayne-Westland attend Livonia schools, depending on the boundary. Some students that live in the Jenison are in the Hudsonville district. I understand what you’re saying and what you’re trying to point out but sometimes seeing those other cities may be misleading. I appreciate the work.
February 26, 2018 at 1:41 pm #3318
Correct Shotpoint but thanks, I knew that would be the case, but didn’t want to take judgement since I don’t know where they live.
February 25, 2018 at 10:41 pm #3311
Paul Donahue ncaa champ
John reader ncaa champ
Bret Metcalf two time ncaa champ
All on the same Davidson team.
Stop embarrassing yourself .
February 25, 2018 at 11:10 pm #3312
None of those guys were NCAA champs in high school so what are you talking about?? Make up your mind, I thought we were talking about high school not college. You old men have nothing better to do than to take credit away from the best team ever.
February 26, 2018 at 8:10 am #3314
I normally would not do this but ccrecruiter18 is not correct in any way. Is this CC team possibly one of the top 5 teams to come out of Michigan, Yes. They are very good and it is well deserved as they all have come together and worked for hard to get there. To say they are the best of all time is a stretch. I would say they would be competitive with the St. Johns but could not beat that team. Whitford would beat Davenport, No one on CC’s team could stop Massa, Hall from bonusing, and there is not one weight I can say cc could bonus at. Amine would beat Wolfert but not bonus, Kamali would have his hands full with Logan Massa and may pull out the win but again, no bonus. I am in no way taking anything away from this CC team but ccrecruiter18 needs to come back to reality. They are really good, “best team ever” NO.
February 26, 2018 at 11:00 pm #3323
According to a article by Flo wrestling our great state had 12,850 hs wrestlers in 2007 ,fast forward to 2016 mi fell to 9,396 . A loss of over 3,000 kids wrestling in a ten year span . Let me do the math here for you ccrecruiter thats around 300 wrestlers lost every year for ten years o.k. so let’s say 10 percent of hs wrestlers have a shot at a state championship thats 30 less kids each year who are a threat to win states . Now try hard to follow me here , less wrestlers means less competition. Now that being said the 2018 dcc team being proclaimed by you as the best team ever in the state is not only delusional and laughable but a case could be made this wasn’t even dcc,s best team ever. Let alone best ever in the state .
February 27, 2018 at 9:46 pm #3327
The original topic bears some discussion that was quickly lost here. In any close match the DCC kids had the same gameplan of never shooting. Pushing, reacting, countering, etc. but NEVER EVER putting themselves in a vulnerable position. Facundo pushed the action continuously for 8.5 minutes and Davenport did NOTHING but escape twice. No shots, no attempts, nothing. The same was executed in about 15 matches that I saw over the weekend and, quite frankly, in previous meets during previous years with DCC. This is what they do so it is a team strategy. Apparently it is a brilliant one because the referees seem to think that pushing is a legitimate wrestling move. I have seen a very few referees call stalling on the pushing wrestler but usually it is only at 285 when a big size discrepancy makes it impossible for the smaller competitor to hold his ground. Luckily, Facundo is talented enough to overcome the ref’s reluctance to make DCC take chances and Brian Case also won a tight one otherwise it would have been a 42 – 0 shellacking.
By the way, did it seem like the referees were particularly sensitive this weekend? Brighton and Dakota got team point deductions and I could see no demonstrable disrespect shown by the wrestlers or the coaches. Perhaps the referee’s mother’s virtue was challenged in a low voice but from my standpoint the unsportsmanlike conduct calls were very cheap.
February 28, 2018 at 7:02 am #3329
I didn’t see the match, or really any of the matches. But I have seen enough wrestling this year to answer the following:
On the “sensitivity” of the officials. It was stated pre-season that the questioning the officials judgement on any call was an automatic unsportsmanlike. I didn’t see the events that unfolded, only know what I have witnessed throughout the year by various officials.
On the stalling–I think some officials just don’t call it, while others are too quick to call it. I witnessed a match similar to the one you mentioned occur a few weeks ago. Wrestler A probably shot 10+ times, fought off by wrestler B all ten times. Wrestler B did not hit one offensive move the entire match, and wins on a ride-out in UTB because he happened to score the first escape. 8 minutes 30 seconds, three escapes, no shots, and not one stall call, and wrestler B wins 3-2 in UTB. You feel for Wrestler A because he was working his butt off to carry the action.
How about this for a strategy for Facundo—get the first take down….then do nothing more than stare at Davenport while on your feet. Force the official to call stalling on both wrestlers to the point where Davenport has to engage. And then see how it goes. That won’t happen, but it would be interesting if it did.
February 28, 2018 at 7:54 am #3330
I’m not sure why all the dcc hate. I watched them and felt they had kids that attack throughout their lineup. Your statement is very generalized. The KD match was disappointing, I think we all wanted to see two of the best go at it. Maybe AF deserves some credit for neutralizing KDs offense. His size and strength seemed to present a problem in KDs up top ties.
February 28, 2018 at 8:46 am #3331
I meant no hate towards DCC kids. I was just offering a possible solution to negate it next time. Sorry if it read that I was hating on someone. It certainly was not my intention.
February 28, 2018 at 9:45 am #3332
Wrestlefan, I’m not hating on CC, as I’ve given them props throughout this thread. I agree that AF deserves credit but there was no offense to neutralize, that’s the point.
Hopefully refs are paying attention to that kind of stuff this weekend. Not talking about the original match that began this thread but there is such thing as being overpowered and it doesn’t necessarily mean a wrestler is stalling. Many times refs will call stalling when one wrestler is simply being overpowered in a position.
However it all plays out, best of luck to all this weekend.
February 28, 2018 at 1:31 pm #3333
No big deal fellas. My response was aimed towards Lipdrag. I don’t disagree on the lack of shot attempts. But KD likes that body lock tie, which he got to several times and he couldn’t get anything going from it. The matches I’ve seen, he scores there. I thought AF was too much in those positions. KD isn’t known as a “shooter” per say.
You must be logged in to reply to this topic.